Episode #50 - Casey Hauser

Episode Transcript: 

Luc Moore (00:06.19)
Welcome to the Wing Life podcast, where we talk about wing foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. Well, hey Casey, man, thanks. It's great to meet you finally. And thanks for coming on the show with us. All right. Thanks for having me. And that was a super fun story that you did. That was sweet actually. We had so many. I'm glad you had fun making that.

I've watched a lot of people do it and Sarah does it all the time for different things. And you think it's a walk in the park and then you sit down and do it yourself and you're like, oh. Yeah, it's it's it's quite a bit of work. Yeah. And you see, I mean, it's so funny, like when you start to do it and you see all that the talent that you've been interviewing and I mean, the level that foiling is gone to so quickly and all these guys. And I was like, I don't I mean, I mean, all the water here, I know this.

But they don't have the evolution of this sport like we do. They don't have Windsor foiling. They don't have that. Yeah, well it's pretty wild. Like for me, that's always such a trip. And especially the last year, you know, I was going through treatment on the mainland and you kind of flip through your photos and stuff and to see like all that progression and really the good times, right? And the beauty of, I think for all of us, for what foiling is, is just such this.

discovery and exploration sport right now, you know? And for those of us that have gotten into it so early, it's been amazing to be a part of all the different, you know, development and evolution of it. And that's what was so cool, like, oh, you knew there was like this, you know, I mean, we were learning on, well, it started with winter foiling, like, swallowing race boards and going race foils. And we're like, it was just out of Kanawha, like a 3 -0, like wave sail. And just like, this isn't, I mean, I couldn't believe it, right? But it was so fun.

And then we tried to get in the waves immediately and like, this doesn't work. You know, but like, but like little by little. Yeah. So that was super, it was fun to go through again. Seemed to be a bit close here. How was that from, from back then? Like what did you, what was your first setup like for Windsor Foiling? So mine was on our, uh,

Luc Moore (02:22.67)
On our Goya, we had the Proton, the Slalom Boards, and they were the ones with the reinforced titles and it was kind of the direction everyone was going with it when it launched in the winter when it was racing first in that sense. So, PO, MFC had one of the first free ride and also race spoils. And so, yeah, literally, we're in the summer and...

It was blasting it and it just goes up like 130 liter slalom board. And like I said, like four, two or three eight and just be like, oh, here you go. I mean, the discovery was insane. And I mean, it's so funny now, like the foils are just so close your eyes and they will take off. You got a like a dance board below a dance board below you. Right. But those ones were just like.

You're just cheating and trying to get all this, you're like, come on, little guy. And then you like try to jive. And it was like, I feel like I was learning all, you know, it's that feeling of learning all over again. You're just like, absolutely horrified and trying to convince yourself to go for a jive. It's hard, eh? Like Windsor foil jibing was like scary for me. Like I could go in a straight line. Like I learned to do that first.

But then as soon as I started to jive, like there was all like you could buckle and then have the mass fall on your feet and like, Oh man, it was scary. Yeah. All the, all the like PTSD of like learning how to windsurf that we like locked out was like immediately coming. Like, I don't know how to do this again. You know? And then I went to, uh, I went back to the river, uh, for the trade show. I actually had to go home and, and like my best friend Wyatt was there and he was already working for Slingshot. And there's really those guys like, cause here.

You know, I mean, in Maui, it's still well last strongholds of really good Windsor conditions. And so in general, there wasn't this jump on the foiling like there was in all the other places where when the conditions are less than ideal, foiling now just makes it so fun. Right. And that's what we all love. And so it's true. So I'm talking to all my boys and like they're all getting into it, like all the why it's like, you know, also he's getting hired by Slingshot and like you're.

Luc Moore (04:35.406)
And just exploding. And meanwhile, we like, I mean, not again. So we were, you know, timed in. We still wave season, you know what I mean? And everything. Yeah. And then so, yeah. So then it came in into the summer and then I went to hood and why it's a blood. Just take this like, you know, it was that infinity like 84, you know, that beast. Oh yeah. The beast. And you could just slow down to almost nothing and still be flying. You could like, you know, eat your way through. And I was like,

trying to figure out how to dive and meanwhile like why it was already doing these like massive shove -its and huge back loops and like chockers that were so insane you know like already that next level and that and yeah just really just you know all of a sudden it was like we were you know in the first years of windsurfing like right out of high school or college where all you want to do is go on the water like all the time and do different things again you know and they're just so fun and

And I came back to Mali after that, like in September and yeah, it's just frothing. Cause these guys were like, I mean, the waves are coming and we got to do quad, we got four of that and say, I'm like, yeah, that's great stuff. And all you need to try. And that's that. I mean, that's probably how we evolved into it. They had already like, I hadn't really been part of the KT team yet. I just switched over to.

drive for Goya and Quattro boards at the time. And so, and, but they had already, you know, started out in development for the drift, the original drifter line of like surf foiling, right. And, and PONMF, you were like launching those first with the hydrofoil company, you know, those first real like high performance surf foils as well, coming off the go foils. It's kind of around that time, you know, just had it like bridged in. And that was kind of the,

serendipitous timing of, you know, all of a sudden starting to experiment a bit. And what we found was that windsurfing was still like this ultimate universal test of all the different stocks, right? Like you could just go out at the sail and it was so easy to, and this was before we, yeah, like there's a couple, you know, right before that gap. But it was such a standard of being able to feel how board would ride against the water.

Luc Moore (07:02.702)
speed over ground to take off, we're in the air, you know, so you could lock them and you can kind of surf a bit, but then you can, you know, get the control again and you could sheet it on a reach and feel how it trim out or check it's upwind or try to do all this stuff. So you had so much more time in a run than you would just if you were a surf boy, right? And so there's so much more discovery to how they perform by being with the sail than anything else. And so that's where just still that.

that winter for them, they became such that crucial component into, you know, everything of it, because we would go to the, you know, we go to the hardware, we got all these spots and like, you know, you'd be sitting there waiting for a little wave to prone and try to pump around and figure it out. But you could just like do these runs back and forth, you know, all the time and like, and so your time on foil is just exponentially higher. So.

That makes sense. Okay. So that's how it became a thing then. So that's how the evolution happened over there. At least. Yeah. For you guys. And it was interesting because we had been like dabbling a little into it. And like I said, I was I've been writing for S2 Mali, which was formerly Mali sales and Barry Spaniel and that team. And so.

Another board brand, but what I've been working with different companies here and in riding and I mean anyone who windsurf and wants to wave sail knows like the original quadro story and you know, Keith and Jason and Sean and what they did. And so like, I mean, I think you ask anyone in the world and if they want to wave sail, they're no wild ride, you know, quadro or something like that. So like for me, that's always been a dream. And.

And it was around this that that kind of door opened, right? Because we saw, I mean, this has always been about having people have fun on the water, right? Like we all know, and what we were talking about just before we started recording, like life isn't always pretty and there's a lot of other things we need to be doing. And this is our one element to just find the release and have fun. And, you know, it keeps us going in that way. And, you know, for years.

Luc Moore (09:22.445)
that I'm sure you felt the same way too. Like we changed our whole life around wanting to windsurf and finding good windsurf conditions, you know, and you totally get that if you live in all these places where windsurfing used to be a very large, but as the year got more specified, we all know the story, you know, it's harder and harder to go. So you can't blame anyone who's, you know, working full time as a family. And then they have like a couple after the meeting's off and they want to just do something. And it's,

You know, you're maybe pumping a six, three or like a five, seven to try to freestyle or you're on like a seven, five twin kit. You know, it makes sense. Like it's a lot of gear. It's not that same sensation, you know. And so it was dwindling and we were always trying to provide the best equipment for them to have fun. Right. This is the one chance to have fun. You want them to have a good time. And yes, you do. And that's where that boiling also came in. You're like, OK, now.

Now they have that time, the window of opportunity to have an ethic like time on the water just got way bigger. Right. And that's what that's what intrigued me at foiling right away. I was like, we're lucky. Like it wasn't, uh, it wasn't easy necessarily to like change everything and try to make the life on Mallory, but we're lucky to be able to have done it and still be able to get good conditions. But even here now, unless it's like certain, I mean, for me, unless it's like four or five and, and I, true.

I'm going foiling, you know, like I'm going and there's, and you see all the pictures and it looks like they have swell a lot of times, but lots of times it's up and down. The wind's gusty. There's a big crowd. It's all these people and are like, no, no, I'm just going to go like down the coast and I'm going to get on my wing gear and for an hour I'm just going to be like through the roof and you know, solid session going, you know? So, um, I think that's what always drove me and what I've loved about doing R and D and being part of this industry is.

is is tinkering with the gear because it's fun, but also so that when people are getting on the water for that little bit of precious time that they have to enjoy it, that they're going to have the absolute most fun because we've gone through telling back trying to ever sing it out so that ideally what they have is a polished polished piece so they don't have to go through misery.

Luc Moore (11:45.805)
And that's the nice thing about connecting, I think, everybody to those that are working within the industry, because not a lot of people might know that kind of backstory about everything that goes into getting gear ready for them, right? And the passion, the dedication, and all the work, because it's not like a lot of times like testing, which I've talked to a lot of people, like testing is difficult and not everybody's good at it, because there's so many different things like you can say, Oh, yeah, this feels great.

Or that feels great. But I said, no, like what do you think would have to change? Like when I talked to Keith and Jason from your team there, they're like, it says it's a variety of different opinions. And sometimes they have to look at your face and then get to see whether you're sailing relaxed or happy or this, and then they can make changes. So I have to listen to people like me just ramble and be like, can you do something off the creek?

And they tell me, I don't know what they're being nice, but they tell me I'm one of the easier ones to figure out what to work on. Maybe, yeah. They said we can avoid the ramble. Like I'm pretty for every time he lets me go try a board or something. And then he's like, Oh, I know the text message of rambling is coming here. But yeah, I don't know. I'm like, wind this down, but you know, like you said, it's very hard. And I think it is.

I was just talking to you yesterday with Logan who works for KT surfing and he's, I mean, he was competing. He's actually in a water right now. Like, I'm sorry. I actually do have the pipe contest up below. So you got Maui boys like, you know, the semis now. Oh, nice, nice, man. Yeah, for sure. So I think just even screaming works. So that I like, but you know, Logan's been testing a lot of the new surfboards, right? He's pretty, watch him surf and you know, like.

I do like kill for this, right? And the confidence is right there. And he was just telling me yesterday, we were dropping off a bunch of sales at ITEC and picking up some gear. And he's like, yeah, so hard to test, right? Like, you know, maybe it's me or the water conditions are different or the waves are a little off, the tides up, you know, is that the forward? Is that all this stuff? Right. So, I mean, it's the dream job. Like everyone wants to do it, but also doing it in a in an efficient way. Right. And and try to give like a

Luc Moore (14:04.493)
clear train of thought and then, you know, understanding, I mean, there's a lot of cost involved. I mean, the board just don't get built out of any, right? So you want to be careful on how you make the changes. And the thing that blows my mind and where I am so impressed and like find inspiration and admire guys like Keith and Jason and all these developers, Sean Nordnes.

I'd like and I'll get back to start our foiling thing and and the guys we've worked with over the years to like the ability to actually listen to what we're saying or what they're feeling and translate that and like objective changes, you know, millimeters here and there rail talks like certain rocker line because it's not it's not just like, oh, you know, the bottom was touching here. We need to like change the rail work here. Well, the bottom is touching there. It's because.

It might be hitting up here or this rail is getting caught. And it's not just changing that bottom. It's adjusting the entry of the rocker a bit or, you know, the tail or, you know, so you feel it this way, but it's actually back because the cause and effect in and that correlation isn't black and white. And that's why I'm so amazed by these designers to be able to quantify it and then qualify what changes to make and how to really interpret that.

with all the changing variables, you know, it is very hard. I think any one of these guys will be paying, will be getting paid millions of dollars, like working at top aerospace or anything else for how they're trying to compete this, you know, and figure it out. It's absolutely mind blowing to me. And I just feel like I'm very thankful that they let me be a part of that process. And like I said, by the time

you know, we got into the windsurfing side of it and it's been that way testing sales for years. And I've gone to test boards at the other brands are written with like a very good relationship with, um, Fabian Bull and lighter at taboo. And, um, and Matt Pritchard like was one of my first sponsors and he was windsurf lessons here on Maui. So we were like very, I used my idol growing up. I mean, Kevin, uh, and that, you know, getting to, to, uh,

Luc Moore (16:24.781)
work with him and try the different boards and be a part of that, you know, but between winter boards and sales, like there are significant changes that happen, but in the spectrum of things, I just feel like, you know, the gear has gotten really good, right? And so the changes are very, they're small changes. They make a big difference. But like, I just saw Big Winds make a post yesterday, like,

with their lineup of new boards and, you know, wing boards and they're all over the place and they're like, longer, narrower now, why aren't we just shorter? And what, you know, like what's going on? And like, that's what is so amazing right now about being in foiling, which is being able to explore like all these realms, you know, and, and possibilities. Yeah. And, and really like,

But it's been the most fun for me is, and I'm sure a lot of the other brands and the designers are saying the same thing, like you're just pulling from all these different examples that you see like in nature and lorithm life, airplanes and old windsurf, exactly whatever, and trying to like match it together for the parameters of this sport, which allowed you to do a lot of different things because once you're up on foil, you don't have the drag.

And so other ideas and concepts that didn't quite work in other sports are now all of a sudden super relevant, right? Or, or, you know, and stuff like that. And it's picking and it's picking and pulling one of those to like combine it, you know, for these different condition types that we're in now. And then also when you like answer one and you start to break into this new threshold of being able to ride and.

you know, super light wind or on or whatever it's going to be right or is downwind into a dot. Then you're like, oh, wait, I can go back and add this component to it or I can change the foil this way. Now the boards match that, you know, and so you would have tossed the idea out a couple of years ago and now I can come back in because the other piece caught up to it. Right. And so I mean, that's been like I said to me, it's just been the coolest part of being on this and and being part of KT where you have.

Luc Moore (18:40.525)
some of the best minds across, you know, ultimate big wave surfing, windsurfing, everything in between. And then you have the knowledge of manufacturing, of board development. You know, like I say, we know KT, we know Keith, we know Jason, you know, Pio, you know these guys. But the other thing that is the real like golden goose of this is, is the people in the factory, like TRE.

Mike Storm, Brian Thompson, these guys had decades of experience across sports, across materials, across production, all the different like flex and weight and stiffness and feel and stuff like, I mean, you think I'm going into the weeds, once they get a hand of it, it just like explodes into something else, you know, and all of a sudden, how they're going to construct the boards, kind of a whole different feel as we all know, but they're able to

prototype that here in a way that I don't think gets enough attention to that detail that's going into making the designs work and complimenting, you know, the rider designer relationship with them, the guys building, right? And so there's that constant like synchronicity of, okay, like for these conditions, then we can reinforce the section here, but we can drop it there. I mean, we're talking to the core of the board, like experimenting with different.

pound Styrofoam for like the central component or where the box is or like the nose and the t - just to see, you know, like how it feels and like what you can get. Oh, that would be so fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super cool that way, right? But it's just that whole, you know, what you get in production is, is a culmination so much of that and that ongoing where you're like, okay, this is the line right now where we know people are going to be psyched.

And the rest, you're still going to figure out a little bit. So let's like put it there. And then like, this is, you know, where we're going to go next thing. And then you get that feedback too, right? And that whole community interaction, once you like get it out and then you can be like, all right, like how close were we to the nail on the head? And like for a lot of these different spots, right? And then what are they looking at? And then how can we listen to that feedback to either validate like how we felt ourselves or realize that for those conditions too, you need to make a little bit of adjustment and either.

Luc Moore (21:01.549)
you know, adjust the range or, or introduce a different one that works in those conditions, right. And how that goes. So it's really cool. And then, so coming into obviously dream stepping in with these guys, like how did that whole kind of thing meld for you? Cause you'd been in the industry for awhile, obviously amazing wind surfer. And, um, how did all that kind of stuff just kind of meld together with the boys over at the team here? Oh, it's very kind of you to say that.

Um, I feel like you were, I feel constantly like, are you looking at yourself on totem poles in a gear? I mean, the level of ceiling and the guys are with, I'm always just like, I feel like I just get the best front row seat of the house of watching, you know what they do. But, um, yeah, as soon as you leave, as soon as you leave your little place, let's say like I wasn't, I hadn't been in Maui in a while, but.

And this is to say across everywhere in the world, like you'll have somebody who's super good at something, but then you might have like, it depends on public opinion. It depends on so many factors, right? And about Stoke and about everything and about how like, how, um, like how you and Sarah work as a team and how that shows off to everybody. Like just to see you guys ride together and do all these sports together for a lot of people. That's such a special thing to be able to watch you guys do that together. It is like there's.

Like especially back East here in Ontario, like you have no idea how many guys wish they had partners or family members that were more inclusive into doing the sports with them. So you guys are an awesome example. Yeah. I do understand it. Cause and I really appreciate you saying that. And it's a, you know, sometimes we lose our ways as we get used to whatever our normal is. And especially after the things I went through last year, um, just to be back. Cause I,

I was doing it back home and we'll talk about it, but I spend a lot of time like, nostalgia phase of like growing up through high school and loving windsurfing and wishing like more people would do it or I'd curl and whatever you're standing on and stuff. You know, maybe like 10 years and it seems kind of normal not here, but believe me, dude, I was very reminded of like, oh man, this was top of the wish list, you know, and to get to share that and with my parents.

Luc Moore (23:15.661)
You know, it wasn't I knew it wasn't unreachable. You know, like I was I was lucky enough to be born into a family that just started windsurfing. And as I as I joked about that growing up was just kicking and screaming and dragged to a lake three hours away from L .A. Yeah, their friends, you know, when all my friends were like playing football or soccer or be a good surfer or something. You know, what is this windsurfing? I don't want to do it. But.

I saw that, you know, I think there's a lot of, I mean, my parents, they moved out of here too. They're upstairs. My dad was sailing a couple of days ago. My mom too, like it's just what it does for the family and the lifestyle around it and that. I mean, it's, I'm so grateful every day for it. And so thankful for that side. That's how we got into the winter and that's how I got here. I think. Okay.

And my parents have been, you know, number one supporters of finding a lifestyle and work balance that was around windsurfing. You know, it was around these areas. They both worked full time in LA and doing different things. And, you know, it kind of seemed the way the work life and weekend was going and also just LA. This was like late 90s, early 2000s. And it was already just getting out of control in terms of.

Parking costs and this stuff. And we're always just leaving to go sail. We go to the Delta, we go, you know, Lake Isabella, we go, you know, we come here to Maui and, and eventually got to the gorge and stuff. So, you know, right off the bat, it was just trying to find, you know, more work around that kind of environment. And it eventually brought me out here. And, and then I was, you know, like I said, I mean, looking up to the Quattro guys and

Levi, the Windsurf movies. I mean, I had posters at high school and college, you know, and I was like, what's that? I mean, all it's the Windsurf. No, my dad does that thing on the lake, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

Luc Moore (25:39.565)
The government support, everything, like all the employees had to basically walk out, you know, had to be shut down. But Keith and Keith, you know, and as where that like still has orders and still want to get some things done or still want to build a little bit here and there. And because of my other job, I'm a sales director for a campaign finance company called IsPolitical. The president was a former windsurfer who was being on a world tour, Mitch Dean Gritch.

Fent a lot of freestyle moves, was there with like Jace and Webb and, you know, Matt and all the Gorge guys and competed everywhere. He kind of gave, he offered me his job in 2017. And so, you know, it's remote sales like you do too. So you can, you know, I was working in the morning and in the afternoons I go to water, but I'd also be able to go into the shop. I wasn't a shop employee.

you know, it wasn't my work. And so I just, I mean, I love this stuff. I want to learn, right. And I don't want to get in their way either because we couldn't fully commit. This was the perfect opportunity and they needed, you know, help putting stickers on the boards for, you know, for the shoot, the custom boards, right. And, and everything else. And so it kind of helped filling in there in the afternoons, put ads on, you know, all that stuff, like tapping the boards and then also fun actually.

It was super fun. I mean, you know, idea. You know, they send you like, like, like you see the wing drifter in the back, but I was like starboard and logo, right. And it's in your whole decal and you have spurred down and lined up and squeegeed out and she had ads. I mean, it's freaking a process. Let me tell you, they have a lot of right. But they're just getting me time. We're running our time with peace. Oh, that's awesome. I've been writing for them already, you know, on the winter side. And and it was, you know, they obviously have.

the most elite wave team, this is about that. But like we were doing a lot more of the flat water and getting the slalom and I was still racing a bit. So we had the relationship already and stuff, but that was really more time to get to know each other. And that was also as the foiling was really, you know, and then all the different beaches were closed and everybody was here. And also that summer where a lot of the pro surfers usually travel, they're now stuck here. Right. And so there's this combination of all those things happening that really allowed foiling to.

Luc Moore (28:03.469)
Froth here, right? The guys that would have gone to Southern Miami to go big wave surfing or anything else, were not stuck here, right? And it's, you know, so these, probably surfers, you know, walls, mid -tide, mid -tide is already, but you know, like the whole rest of the fleet page, everyone, they all like, were like, hey, let's try this out, right? And so you have this like kind of explosion. And so we saw, you know, the demand and then, and realized again with the...

with the riders and the understanding of gear technology and the ability to manufacture like it was a natural fit to dive more into that. And then and then unlike like I said, I'm talking to Wyatt Tyson, you know, Brian, like all the guys are now like jobs are getting paid on mainland foiling, you know, like we were like windsurfing, not unlike I'm like, yes, if.

They're getting paid to be brand managers. Like clearly there's a market here, but we need to dive in. Yes, it's growing. So yeah, I became, I think, very annoying to them. That's how I feel like with... Yeah. And then I said, and then you guys made this beauty. And it's one of them. It's like, I think they tell me it's like number one board in like North America in sales. Like, you know, I don't, don't quote me on that.

But it does incredibly well. It does well. Like the first version came out and all of us at East, like I started writing a couple of years ago, amateur for Jesse on Vancouver Island there before I started the podcast. So like I was writing for him and then I tried the blue drifter and that thing was amazing, light and nimble for wind for foiling. And then I swapped in for for this one.

And that's my buddies. It's like a 105 or a 115 or something. I tried to get him down to an 80, but he was not going for it. Even though I think he should easily. He easily should. I was probably learning on actually that first like blue five to 80. And I was like my first like proper. Yeah. You want to forget it. So yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

Luc Moore (30:12.301)
So Windsor foiling was huge. And then when did you like, what did you feel the difference between Windsor foiling and your first sessions wing foiling? Oh gosh, that it was just so much easier. It was so much easier as you realize, like as you realize all of a sudden it wasn't attached to the board anymore. You know, I'm sure every Windsor rabbit's feeling where like you self consciously understood that there were things you could and could not do with the sail. And you just figured that was the same with the wing.

And then at one point you were just like, like, you know this, you're like, what the, you know, you're still like going around it or like, you know, like, I mean, every windsurfer, I learned to wing myself included, like, being the funniest thing and being here, by the way, this is like my side, because we did it early and no one saw us and our friends, like Sarah and I would go with Sean and Paige and our other friends, Dawn and Julia, we got like from two out.

And we just do these downwinders. We go out in the afternoons and nobody loved the windsurfers that want to get into it. Once it came out, they're like, OK, I'll give us a shot and I could, you know, do whatever I could easily doing. But nobody saw us like fucking cartwheeling, exploding, blowing up wings, you know, like avoiding sheer death and paddling in after sunset. Like the sharkie is like, oh, what are you doing? Nobody's dying in that stuff. They just jump from the beach and I just give you that. I'll go and every one of them, you know, like.

They put it like a sale, you know, and then they like, and then there's like, like right into the wig and just fucking yard sales everywhere. And it was still good watching. I can tell you there's something really rewarding about all these people that I've seen in magazines and admired the gene. And they're like, this photo doesn't work or this board, whatever. It's like, you need to learn to be a cook again. Oh, the humility. Yeah. Oh, the humility.

real quick, you find these characters. I'll tell you what, like my other one is like, is seeing some of the top big wave athletes. Like this was like, we never saw this one coming. And the Wyatt and Brad are these guys, they laughed at me all the time. But I'm like, I never thought, you know, like out there we're downwinding. And there's I remember one time with Ian Walsh and I mean, his brothers and their pioneers of

Luc Moore (32:35.597)
big wave battle surfing. I mean, it doesn't get more critical in the water and understanding. He's like, Casey, how do I attack? I'm like, he's asking me how to attack. I didn't see this coming, you know? But then, of all people having talked for 20 years, like wind surfing and everything else, what's phenomenal is you see how committed and professional these athletes are, how they can process, and they don't filter.

like on the met there's no mental like, oh, gratitude or whatever. It was like straight through. I was like, get low on your front foot. Think you're just carrying away the group and better, you know, bring the wing forward like this. I don't want to pull you back. You like it wasn't like beginners luck. It was like the first five. I'm just like, you know, so but that was that but that was fun on that side. And and yeah, like I said, it was just it was cool because also we had like, you know, everybody was was wanting to get into it again.

We talk about this, you mentioned the big wave surfing and kind of that realm. And I think as this wind sports, you know, and we've all looked up to like that other, you know, group. And I mean, it's incredible talent and dedication there. But, you know, we've always tried to bridge the gap between like, oh, we're wave sailing and we're surfing and something and foiling like that unity. Right. And it had that there's a technical component and there's like a mutual level of respect for.

and you could ride with each other and you're not in each other's way. And there's so much space out there, right? And you really enjoy just being on the water and the sensations Nolan can deny when you're winging or downwinding or just proning that you found that like perfect glassy wave. And it was so cool to see like what we were feeling and these guys being like, man, this is the closest thing I have to like big wave rider and these downwinders. And so all of a sudden now I feel like.

after what they said, like when windsurfing first started and you know, rocks thrown at them, tires cut and all this stuff, and village sports and everything else, like foiling all of a sudden became this, you know, bridge of everybody to have good times together again. And that's what really like hooked me right away. And you know what? It was during the pandemic and that time, and we all know it, right? Like everyone had the time off to cut these, to cut these checks and they all were just buying gear, right? Like all the industry.

Luc Moore (34:56.013)
Did amazing those first couple of years. And we'd go down to Kanawha. We'd go down to the harbor. And what you were just saying before about how many guys would like to have to be family oriented. You had their wives getting into it. The kids like that was winging. There were 85 people on a Wednesday at the harbor like dads, moms, all their kids, like all trying to wing again. And it wasn't obviously just here. We were like, well, the last two was in front of the world like.

Like my good friend Kloss, you know, who got a vote, who does all the new tone, right? And his, he was bronze all time, like doing backflips and all this stuff everywhere. Right. There's site, like how many windsurf kits do you see doing that? Right. And everything else. So like, couldn't help, but just be like, and then all of them, you know, all the guys like Keith and Lalo and Francisco and Jason, and we'd go down with like big windsurf boards and the first prototype little wings and it's.

It's it's Lena and Bianca and Cecily, their wives and all the kids, the little red. And they're all just trying it out. You know, there's such that that barrier to enter the sport like had dropped. So friendly. And I the guy, Stephen Esparza, who directed Sarah's documentary and is doing the next one and a lot of growing wave, you know, like his dream of like filming a mallet, really being the waves. And I mean, this guy's.

You know, we took him to the harbor and he's on a big airport wing and he's getting the sail and like in five minutes the guy is going from like on his knees to standing up to doing I mean, if you use the winter, I mean the sail would have guillotined him and slap his foot. The wing is just like a little like this and you turn around and you go in again and the guy sailed out, jive and came in and anyone listening to this that knows what that was like for the first time. And like you said, that accomplishment like that.

You know, like, dude, he cried like right away and he's just like, and you're like, this is an amazing sport. Like, you cannot deny that this is going to be here to stay and that there's so much happiness that comes from it. There's so much positive that way. And so, you know, that's what I think that's what we started to see and that that family and going back to that whole, you know, the specialness and with the people you enjoy and camaraderie of the sport and, and, and that's what Winging brought in.

Luc Moore (37:19.149)
And, you know, we always had people to go with. That's that's that's what got me like fully hooked on it. You know, nice, man. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, absolutely. No, no, no. Yeah, actually, you got that. You got that. That's all right, man. You can send me a long text any day. So you got so you got you safety aspect of no lines like for me when I started winging.

Like I was on a three seven Windsor foiling and I wanted to turn more. And I was like, the sale was getting in the way. So exactly what you're saying. As soon as you switched to like a one pound wing, you're like, all right. But yes, safety wise. And it's beautiful to see so many kids getting into it. And they're the ones that are excelling on tour. They're the ones that are pushing limits. They're the ones doing like what kind of tricks, like I had Kaden and Matt on the show super early because yeah, cause I went to Maui 10 years ago and

I think it was just after my accident. So after starting to before or just after something. So it was like, I looked at other athletes who had been through a lot of trauma because it was like, you guys made where I want to go. Right. So it's so cool to see Matt there still ripping at Ho Kipa with everything that he's gone through. If anybody doesn't know Matt Pritchard, look him up. Like crazy to see how when we can talk about that in a bit, like.

the aspect of having that sport that kind of anchors and pulls you through these situations in life that are like, I need to go forward. Part of me is unable to or difficult, but then you have this aspect that move forward. So anyways, talking to Matt brought him on cadence, like pulling seven twenties, backflips, front flips, all this stuff early at 13. And I was like, what's he going to be doing at 18? Right. And I mean, the little kids here like that level.

Kaden, Otis, Cash, the Spencers, you know, and like, and the girls too, they're ripping, you know, and it was like, yes, I still liked when we did it. And I mean, foiling was my excuse with no flip straps coming back from like hips or trees. And they all started putting sack on. It's like, damn it. I like the swelling part, you know, do I have to do? And then.

Luc Moore (39:32.589)
I then told me actually how easy I mean, compared to windsurfing, I like not to do the technical tricks that they're doing, but you understand the possibility of them because of how easy it is to really jump things. You know, I mean, it really was remarkable. I was so horrified. No, no, no, my hip or anything else like not going to do it. And then I laid it. I did my first one. Like someone should tell us right away that the foil just.

breaks the wire. So it's like landing on 10 ,000 pillows. Like trying to land a windsurf board and it's like bam, you know, and like first time on the foil. I never jumped. So yeah. Is it a soft pillow? Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, you're like, you jump the windsurf for the next time and you're like, oh, where's my foil? You know, but the foil like, I mean, it can go very wrong, but, uh, but if you, you know, feel like the basic like hop, which is what I did, just like windsurfing again, you know, like,

We're all, when we were teaching, we were always like, just hook it, like be just hooked in a little bit on note to just practice. Like, you know, roll up, lane and go and then back down, like back down, like, you know, and like try a little bit higher. So that's what I was doing. I was like, Oh, fuck. You know, I was like, Oh, that's fine. And I think I get really high. And I was probably like this far out of the water. Yeah. It's like my brother and I. Yeah.

It's like my brother and I go kiting and windsurfing on Vancouver Island or whatever. I said, man, I'm ripping on a four to today. I'm going to go for big air. I'm going to go big air. I was like, how high was my tail out of the water? I said about two feet. Because kiting, obviously, you can rip like 10, 15, 20 feet. And I was like, I can't do that windsurfing, man. That landing would just like destroy every bone in my body. But we worked for.

Coming out of college, I was working for Red Bull and then we got into Shadowbox and started a jump contest, which came Epic Sessions and Censor and we we had the first like King of the Heirs and the like the live heights. They see they do impose them now. They still do like the Red Bull Rockets. This was back 2011 and and we just joked because everybody wanted it like in theory. But the reality was they all realized I jump 20 feet, you know, more like seven.

Luc Moore (41:51.373)
It was the dawn of telemetry that we thought would boost everyone up. I really just like swipe there like that, you know. Oh, yeah, that's so good. Yeah. Cool. Because anyway, I'm not a good jumper. Obviously, I've never forwarded or tried anything. I think I was talking to Sarah Keita two weeks ago and I said, I tried to shove it, thought my ankles were going to break and I never did. I'm a swelly kind of guy, but swells still super fun. But now we were talking. And that's boiling. I think.

Actually, going back to what I was saying with the with the telemetry days and one of the things that we were conceptualizing in different use cases was like different styles riders had regards to the sport they're in. So, you know, most people because of where they live, they're going to do a water sport in the summer and they're going to do a winter sport in the winter, right? Or whenever it's going to be. But the type.

a discipline in that sport. They try to mimic a sensation. They're after something, right? And so maybe they're in the park in the winter in the snowboard park, trying to learn a little errors and tricks. And in the summer, they're more freestyle ones for foreign, right? Or they're swallowing sand in the summer. So they're like outlining racing in the winter. Right. And I think what you said was for me and going back to what was so rad about foiling was I was never the best jumper of all my friends by far.

or freestyle. A lot in my head, then I later realized like my head was because physically like my hip was off and I couldn't like compress and the combination of one or the other and I just was scared and it hurts and had to, you know, that stuff. But I loved swell riding. I loved wave sailing. And and so like my beginning back to that was by the telemetry, you know, across the different sports, you're someone that just loves to

heart that loves that sensation of like being on a wave or a swell or something. And you look for those days as you get more and more refined in those conditions you're looking for, you know, the really, really, really good days become rarer and rarer, right? Because you're like, but foiling just went again, you know, and that's again, what I think was so drawn in and made a couple of references, you know, we to Sean and Paige,

Luc Moore (44:14.573)
We're good friends of Sarah and I. It's Sean Ornez, who's part of the Quattro guys. And he's been, you know, a legendary innovator of shapes across windsurfing, kiting, initial stand up boards, you know, the first real like big wave paddle boards the guys used across all lands just for that cut through and stuff. And it was pretty funny because we, Paige and Sarah and I are all at the gym together. I'm seeing Campbell at

deep to peak. And so we'd all become friends kind of not really through the water, because our sports were now same, same, different, but more off the water. Paige and I first met like I had my first hip surgery, and she had just been recovering from a gnarly shoulder injury and surgery. And, you know, we'd see each other at the gym, we'd see each other at dinners and stuff. And like said, going back to the initial like, look, when you show up at the beach, and you're just sailing and that crowd is diminished, and you wish you could be more together. And we're all getting busy.

And, uh, and then foiling came out and, you know, instead of like, I mean, we tried so hard to do everything to get here. So you can still sail when it's good yet. You can't just be there at 11 every day. You know, you got to work, right? Yeah. Uh, so even here and even trying to do that, you know, you're still balancing all and it can't make it. So we were all just like, okay, let's just go to the carpet, like four 30, you know, and it's like middle of winter and we'd be driving down like ask to keep us everything.

didn't care about missing whatever it was during the day because we knew that we were going to get an hour or two till sunset and just playing around and trying this. And so we had, and so that's kind of how our, like my foiling really evolved. This was before, like going back to the slalom boards and Sean had, he'd been shaping some broom boards. And then also he'd taken like the concept that I think,

We see more common today. The only other brand I saw doing it at the time was JP. They did their stand up or they have foil and Tyson had one where the boxes were further forward because everybody else had every back to the Boston like us. And so we were like riding these Windsor foils, which were predominantly free race or race or I did with the boxes in the back. And then we were trying to like swell ride and everything. Like you said, just by my swells and Sean was you built he built like.

Luc Moore (46:40.461)
He had a stand -up board or like seven four and the boxes were more forward and he took, you know, he's been a crucial development to all of lifts boards since the beginning, you know, and had all the lift foils. And so he was using all the lift surf foils and all of a sudden, like. The whole apparatus changed, you know, like you could do things now. And I remember sailing along with I was on my wind foil on the Proton slalom board.

We launched out of Kuao, which is below Bukipa where we lived. And you go up to Bukipa and back down and these torch rounds in the summer. And Jumpaolo, if you haven't won, you know Jumpaolo? No, I haven't. Jumpaolo is an ITech. He's a gear specialist in foil, fishing, not always also incredible. It's the weather for Gasser. He has a blog here. He's insane. He's a great guy to talk to. Oh, cool.

But he was out there too on like a converted starboard sup, you know, saying what the sale to you. But Sean was just like, you know, also trying to turn and wait till like subsea on getting in the way, like trying to figure out. And so for me, I was like, really like some of that breakthrough that fun was like, you know, getting a ride with them, getting to have that like afternoon after work sessions and then that whole discovery. And then like I said, I went back to the gorge for things like six weeks or something.

And at that time, Keith had been working with Kai, like always, and they built, I had no idea, it was like, you know, but they built like a six foot, hundred liter, sup foil thingy, you know, with a mass track. And it was.

And it was this attempt off a smaller wind foil to make something you could stand on and kind of maybe use for a channel crossing that wasn't super, super long, right? Or, you know, just something in between, right? And I tried it and, and, uh, and they kind of went different directions for that board stayed there. When I got back, um, from the boards, like in September and, you know, we're talking more and more than they had, uh, they had boards sitting there and all of them using it. And that became a board for like,

Luc Moore (49:00.109)
almost three years, it became like the benchmark. And what was so interesting about it was, you know, six feet and 100 liters, I could paddle it to sub foil. Again, like I've had my hip issues, so it's hard for me to pop up surfing. So I would stick with the bigger board and stand up out of it. But I have the man's track so you can windsurf foil it, you know, and then first time winging. Oh, my God, it can take me like 20 minutes to get to your question about what was it like the first time?

I thought it would take like 35. My rambling is getting better here. I'm just stoked to chat with you, man. We've been planning this thing for so long and I'm just so happy to have you on and finally get to hang out with you. That's what this is about. Just like hanging out, chatting, hanging out. So yeah. Right. Yeah, no, I love this too. And I'm glad it's a nice benchmark to be able to be here to talk to you right now. So yes, yes. I took that board with me everywhere.

I rebuilt it. I broke boxes. It just kept like relaying it or get modified. I don't know what the spray can is. Just several ideas. But I went to the gorge to use that. And that's when Wyatt had the first like slain wings. You know, the very first ones. And I mean, it was like, oh, he's like, all right, we got to figure this out. Everyone's really good job. We're just like, whatever. We're going to win. Sir, foil till we die. We don't need these.

Uh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. We went to the hatch and like Wyatt looked around and nobody was watching him. Like I should get a pump and like pump up a week. Did that not feel wrong the first time you did that? Didn't that feel like you were cheating on your sport? Well, and the thing too, like I had to go buy a pump and like walk in there. Yeah. Well, do you want single action or double action? I was like, I have no idea.

when you're talking about I like to go like this and I want that thing to go poof and I don't know dude. What attachment is it? I was like attachment? You got the little mirror pointy thing, you got the screw on one, you got the, I was like oh my god. We're Kiders. It felt like I was cheating on my, yeah it was bad. It was just like what is, I'm not supposed to be doing this but anyways.

Luc Moore (51:25.421)
I swear my phone somewhere I have a video like traffic graph on like, like, what are you doing down there? And you tell them, like, you know, but yeah, we like, I remember the thing about it and that board. So I had that board and, and why do we, yeah, it's like the shot, like it's the 84 and the one below it, the phase. Um, those things were there so far out of their time for their all roundness and their range and, and the way you could.

I love they could switch the fuse so that for sup you could push the wing forward to the board work super well. And for when you'd swing it and bring it back. You know, like they were, yeah, I learned on that kid. They were so far ahead of their time for the compatibility and the diversity of different disciplines of foiling with the same set up, you know, um, and just being built heavier is my best way of putting it. They'd also like last, you know, like they could endure it. You know, when we, you took,

We took those first lift oils and we were telling them, you know, they had to reinforce the mass because they're working for everything. She had to say, no, that's not going to happen. You know, I mean, this is six years ago for anyone. They're phenomenal. Yeah, it's nice to hear. But yeah, we, uh, uh, yeah, we did it. And like I said, because I had that same foil on that same six foot board, just got the wing.

You know, and the board was as comfortable enough, stand up foiling it and wind foiling and no wind that could balance on it. I knew exactly how the foil was going to respond. So it's just starting to figure out someone said, thankfully, like it's like riding a dirt bike or something. It's like wrist down or up. I remember that. And you know, all right. So then like wrist down or, you know, like this. And we were just at a hatch like one afternoon and nobody was there. And even after a freestyle sailing, we would have left by that because the wind was so crap, you know, and went out and had the whole place to ourselves and.

freaking like halfway across the first time, you know, like got some wind, like, you know, you know the hatch and you know how to get on a plane. So you're like going in that direction and you just come up and again, and for anyone that's trying winging, if they've done another type of foiling, if they've subfoil or if they've windsurf foiled, staying on that setup and then grabbing a wing is the easiest way to do it so that there's the least amount of new things happening at once, right? So the second I started to get up, all I could think about was the wing. Like I could.

Luc Moore (53:43.853)
I could glide that foil, I knew it with my eyes closed. And so, it allowed, you know, like just cruising again. And then like you said about the windsurf drive and how scary it was, you're like, search a sheet in like this and you just pull off the first one. And you're like, wait a minute, this thing isn't attached. So, the next one you're kind of like, what the fuck? You know? And that was it. And we had this, I don't know, white grown V. It was freaking hilarious. Sarah recommended we did like that.

a Braveheart theme song, dude, it's on Facebook. That was my first wing one. Yeah. And and yet we went back to Maui and a lot of our surf friends because I mean, they don't want to learn how to windsurf, but they all picked up wing like that, like so fast. It was phenomenal. And so for a little while still like I was still on the like windsurf foil or diet train, like because the wings are so inefficient.

You know, like you were like we were driving that for a session where like you're so fired up. You like try to do a thing. You made it work. So, you know, maybe more you happy than I am now. And you're like, you know, but you know, it'd be great if it was like just more rigid, you know, like, I don't know, like, like had a mast and like attached to the board and we could like shoot it. If those wings are just pulled like tacos, you know, I'm like, yeah, they're bad. First, like even the first ozone one, which were so.

Far ahead. You know, if you ride them again, you're just like, what the? You know, so, uh, so I still was like all about, uh, I get like two, oh, Windsor sales and they'd all go out on three meter wings or four meter wings. I've got two, oh, like, and trying to go down with them, you know, on that, on the hundreds. You held on for a while. I'm impressed. Well, it was super fun and I actually miss it. Um, the last time we did it was, was doing some R and D for the air bolts right before I got diagnosed and, um,

One of the things that's so rad is, is like you said, it's really hard to swell ride with the sail until you can like kind of get that first sheet in and bottom turn. And it's kind of like onshore riding with sails up where you could be clue first. And it's it's hard to get like it's like jiving for the first time, you know, or for doing forward where you sheet in and you get that pull forward and you die. But it just for a second and then everything matches the speed and also sail goes.

Luc Moore (56:08.461)
completely neutral. And it's one of the things that I, that you cannot do winging. And I think for anyone wave sailing or that likes wave sailing, it's what's so incredible about windsurf foiling is that you can, and this was what we were doing downwind here, so I was just loving it, was that you get on the swells and the second you like engage to get yourself forward and going downwind, all of a sudden I could like, like put the sail down and like hard the swell and then like bang off the top and you do these rock turns and it feels like you're in.

Baja, you know, like low to high, like four or five, like perfect, like no, you know, you just set these up. You see this, you know what I'm saying? You see the swells coming. You're like, oh my gosh, you could like, and so you could practice and the foil, because it exaggerates so much of that power of the wave, like technically wise, you had to be so on it with getting leverage over the foil and committing to the turn. And what I found was that, I think personally like,

when I looked at my wave sailing and the connection timing, like things got a lot better because I was getting a lot more practice to it. I was going through a lot of the motions, the actual sensation of like having to come over and get on your front foot and go like rail down the bottom turn. You mean to try to do that on the winter foil and going down the swell, so wild and to feel that dynamic of when the sail goes light and it would come back on as you go from, you know, rail to sail and back. So.

We talk about it, I mean, with Matt, Richard, like we've, you know, you try to do windsurf camps, you have people come out, but your time on the wave and like in the pocket of the wave is again, so minimal, right? And you're just always looking for that way of sailing. But again, on the windsurf foil, Matt are having it all the time in all these different places. So your time on water and your time on water trying to wave sail goes exponentially up when you're on the windsurf foil. And so like those, the air bits that we built.

are designed for that and kind of coming out of that evolution of, you know, those early standup boards, like I said, like Starboard Head or JP and Sean, Sean is really like the boards of Chumville, which is fricking phenomenal, right? And it's actually like seven, six, which is kind of like ironic kind of full circle to these downwind boards, which everything else about them is much free, but that concept of that kind of mid length zone to fill these gaps, it's funny how again, full circle.

Luc Moore (58:34.413)
Right. And as board foil to sail to wing to foil the board to wing again, you can start to jump through and you start picking those pieces back up. Right. Yeah, I was just it was really fun on that side to feel that. That's why I couldn't get out of Windsor foiling because I was just like it was so sick to do. I got it. But but at some point, you know, like I think why it's still and we hadn't designed the wings yet. So why it's going to be like this three meter.

prototype of like the new one and you know, it's blowing, I mean, the thing is in Maui, it's blowing 30 all the time. And at that point, it's so windy for windsurfing, you couldn't beat the ease of the wing and just getting it out of the way. And you're just like, okay, you know, like, so I just - That's a good point though, relating that to your windsurfing, wave sailing and how you would have to then even master those skills even more, right? Because - What?

like it'll just take your level even further. And then when you go hop back up to ho keep on your regular kit, like, did you find that that helped and you were way more fine tuned kind of thing? 100 % I just felt more comfortable to a lot of the muscle memory, you know, and everything, everything we talk about, like in training, whether it's in the gym, or, you know, wherever it's like, it's that muscle memory, it's that repetition, right? Like they always joke like freestyle is like,

You had to do the it's the 500 club, right? You gotta try and move 500 times before you land it. You know, when we were learning on Vulcan and stuff like that, you know, and so it's just understanding those dynamics and wave sailing. I mean, you do it right. But the amount of time it takes is a lot longer because of the availability of those sessions and everything. And again, foiling fits in there. You can go out in a lot of times where it's not ideal for for wave sailing and you're getting that.

practice and I don't even know that practice but I mean it's as good as conditions yet you know it's glassy it's like full power you know like hey look at you look back at the actual weight I'm breaking and it's like you know it's not very big it's all windblown and all across place and choppy you are just like holding on for dear life like you're on some low -brow eye like glassy like yeah like put the breath in like whoa!

Luc Moore (01:00:54.669)
Why are you going also? That's funny how you get that feeling, eh? Because I noticed that like this year at Sandbanks on Lake Ontario, I finally got, it was maybe overhead six, seven foot stuff. And then you're coming down in the foil and it just feels, it feels massive. It's not.

but it feels massive in the speed and you're like, okay, I did three turns on that. And it was like, no son, you went straight. You just went right down that bomb. And it's crazy how that feeling is. Do you have any kind of explanation as to why the foil makes you feel like that? I mean, I know not from like a level of expert of like a hydrodynamic, you know, but it's just interesting. And I think,

you know, not to get too woo woo woo on everything, but the connection of the energy and all the waves around us, right? And we talked about, and again, with my leukemia experience last year is something that comes up a lot and the people we meet and the connections we have and through these sports and that stuff. And I find foiling has a way of doing that, like directly to the source of energy of the waves that we like. There's a deeper, you know, what we get in a wave that breaks and what's happening.

just behind it and below it, there's such an amplitude of that. And that's what the foiling allows you to like click into, you know? And when you sink in with that, you feel like a different connection, you know, to everything. Like you're in rhythm, you're vibing at the same frequency. And I think that's what's so addicting about our sports in general, but it's harder to find that synchronicity. But with foiling, you can get it.

right away and it doesn't need to be a lot, just the littlest bit and you can like lock into that and be cruising, you know? And that's what's so appealing to it too is that whole, there's such a natural ease to it when you get into the flow of floating because there's no drag, you know? And the wing goes away, the water drag goes away and you're just, and it's so, I mean, still with the wing.

Luc Moore (01:03:13.005)
And it's flaps and it's sailing. It's there, right? But when you do the unwinding, and that's what really got me into cold downwind program. Yeah. How was that to start off in that? It's blowing 35 and it's 30 and you're going like whatever 20, what, you know, and it's dead quiet. It's just dead quiet and the whole thing out there, you know? And it's just so insane. The sensation around you. Meanwhile, like.

It's like eight foot winds well and another one over there and you're like flying through and you can set up these massive turns and just there's no boundaries, you know, nowhere you can't go. Well, you can't. Oh, wow. It's like one of the most. I guess it's so nice. And it's funny, you guys, like I said, when you're injured, you're going through other stuff where you're just working and you cannot be on the water or in a different location, you know, and you're thinking about your next trip.

Like you start to picture those perfect days, like what you live for, right? Just want a four, seven session or whatever it's gonna be, you know? And it was funny for me, like it still was definitely like a really good wave sailing day and was probably gonna be at the top. But unless it was like very, I don't know, like my version of like good wave sailing, you know, it's still like not, not stick your pants scary, but like somewhere between and you know, whatever. Like all I could think about was wanting to go downwind, suck what?

was all I was thinking of all the treatments and everything was like, I just want to get out and do that because that, I don't know that sensation that you get is just shriveling. You know, so yeah, that was fun for that. I'm glad that you had that. And because yeah, like that's the one piece that brought me through like through my huge accident scene and eight years and nine years of rehab.

was windsurfing. Like, I don't know what it, it just, I lost kind of my motorcycle community, but then I hopped into this community and it was insane how the wind, how you would go out there. And then it would just kind of transform everything about you. And we've talked about a little bit about this, but just thanks for sharing all that with us and that whole stoke and the whole history of everything starting off in Maui. Cause there's, it's just, you don't get those stories, right?

Luc Moore (01:05:37.485)
And so it's so amazing that we're able to sit and chat with that. And you had mentioned as well that you were working on some new stuff with Keith. We do. And it's more like it's pretty funny of all people. I'm pretty much the last one at the team because I've been out of the loop last year. So, you know, I'm I'm discovering what's coming out right now, too. And it's phenomenal, like super. I just it's funny, like.

You know, like we were supposed to talk last week and then miss and this week and it was, um, blue, like 30 for three days and I got to go down winning again. And I got to try like one of the prototype foils that new team has been working on with us and the KT team. And it was like, uh, this was an eight 30, uh, front wing and I was riding the lift one 70 for all my down lending. And I was like, man, I mean,

We're talking like six months post bone marrow transplant. I can be like, oh, I don't know if it's a good idea. He's all right. It just it lifts so quick. You're going to be fine. Don't worry about it. I'm like, OK, we got to bring it all. And my Apple Watch says I swam for about three miles, which is true. But I also should have just back like around. Yeah, finally. But I also had some of like the most crazy glides of ever at. And like it was just a matter of like you tried to bring it. I tried brand new foil. I wrote.

our Dragonfly 7 foot, which was like my go -to, but really, you know, 7 '7 or something where you come back a little bit like that. So I went like super small board, incredibly small foil and forgot how to connect swells or how strict and exhausting that sport is right away. So I got never like, it was like, all the time, it's like, I'm like, yeah, I think I was resting now and my heart rate come down to 1 '70. But like other times, like when you got the foil, like, oh, like.

That's phenomenal. And so I, you know, again, and I'm watching probably like everyone else, you know, you see online, I feel like people are dropping new products and I've been break throughs across all the different brain ends all the time. And, you know, just that shift to smaller foils with a lot more lift. So that once you're up, you have, you know, much less drag at higher top speeds, but it's a hard, it's a hard switch to make, you know, like because.

Luc Moore (01:07:54.701)
And going back to the R &G thing you said is like, you never want to go on a foil too small and just sit there and slog and not get going. Yeah. So, yeah. Too small, board too small, wing too small, but mainly the foil too small is a tough one. Um, especially if you're in colder, colder water. But you never know what you can get to until you try. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, like I tried some of the new axis downwind stuff and did my first downwinder like a six to eight kilometer downwinder Yeah, and I went out with Brad who is that? We started at Latuna and well all the way down to pretty much Wyatt's Resort played in the waves there in the beach and then did like a one -hour up climb back to get to the original original on spot and

Like even those foils compared to, I have an older version of an Armstrong foil, which I love. It's an awesome foil, but just the crazy evolution of what always comes down. And I had a bigger tail. So it's a 300 with, I think one of the new higher aspects or whatever. Crazy how, A, how quickly I could turn it, B, how it felt like I was in four wheel drive, like I could fricking bank it and it would hold. So I'm looking forward to continuously trying some new stuff. And when I get out to Maui, like I'm stoked to be able to come and ride.

with you guys and try some of that stuff. Cause I think it's going to be so fun there, but just to sense the new sensations of fun, joy and stuff that we can bring to people. And it's super awesome to connect with people who have, who have given so much of their lives and, and been so integrated with it like you. So anyways, I just want to say thanks for taking the time and stuff. Yeah. Oh, dude. Yeah. No, I love this. And like I said, and continuing on, if people have like more questions about the R and D or also just like tips and tricks, like,

to learning stuff from, and I'd love to continue that side for us to share that. And like I said, I think it really boils down to people's time, right? And trying to maximize the most enjoyment out of it. So anyways, we can help get it to when you do have that precious bit of time to go for yourself and do something that there are people to help like with trials and tribulations.

Luc Moore (01:10:13.005)
You know, like, and that's the joy of doing it for that side. But yeah, it's been a blast. I mean, I think that's funny. I think back to like, dude, I remember Swifty was like, we'd go downwind and he was testing Cabrinha, like a run of prototypes that like bladders kept popping, you know, and you'd just be like, wait, how about the outside? The outer spread's like paddling in, you know, people don't realize like, I mean.

The idea is great. If everyone's broken down or something, what do you do? Is you're just trying to figure out how it works or what doesn't, you know, or, or like say it took a too small a foil or you're out of time. They've been out there with an Allen key on the way outside. I'm sure it was. Oh God, don't think about it. Don't lose the key. Oh Jesus. That's so wild. And I remember like one of the other first boards Keith made and so funny, he made this, it was a, it was four 10.

But at 69 liters, not 70, at 69 because I was funding it. And I had a little mass track crunch on the front. And it was like, we're going to try to wing this board, like right at the beginning of winging. It was kind of like an eggnose and all the volume was off. And but we had a mass track on it anyways. And none of us could wing it except Sarah, because Sarah can basically like float on anything. She weighs 52 kilos. And so we wound up wing forwarding it instead. And you know, like.

Lugos and Antonio Lugos and the Slingshot guys, they were at my like some secret boards two at a time. But that board was so sick to win foil. And I ran up riding like all the time, like testing all foils. But if there's no wind, you're screwed. You're like this deep. Can you slog with him? Right. But I remember like I remember because what I would do is take the new foils that we were trying with MFC and and I just use that board and I'd go.

We lived in Kua which is just down from, um, Franku Kipa and I've launched from there and go up above Kupapa to like Turtle Bay or like Malikio and then back down. And it was sick because you could get like, you tried it in the waves, um, you can go inside where there was like some flat water at just below Kua, like Nori's in there. It's like really light winds and, and then you go all the way upwind and you go down in the swells. So you're really like diverse range of conditions really quickly, right?

Luc Moore (01:12:37.645)
but got way too excited that things would work and I went out there and I squawled. And also the Coast Guard was doing drills with helicopters and lifeguards, like drop the, and it was really great. And I was cruising around all of a sudden, the foil just like straight stalled on me, like in the middle of the ride, it was like and down and there was no wind. And I was on the outside turn, I was like,

Oh my God, this is dumbest idea I've ever done in my life. And then luckily, one Gus Kaye is this deep and her heart's pounding. There's a fun element to the testing. I'll tell myself not to do that. And sure, two days later, you're like, nah, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Get back out there.

I heard that you guys for downwinding, like you're fairly far out, right? It's not like hood where you're like a hundred meters from shore. Like you're, you're pretty far out to see, aren't you a little bit? Just yesterday, when it gets really east here, it's like the Maui coastline, if you're like, let's say the ocean's out here and it got like a fauna like way up here in like, Kaluwai down here. So you're coming downwind, like down the coast. And so at Maliko to the coast, it doesn't just go straight down. It also, like,

curves in, right? If you look at the map. So you've already got like when you're doing the Maliko run, for example, like once you get to, I don't know, even Pai 'i, it starts, the coast starts to cut in and then definitely like right around Sprex and then in Canopelot and then in Kana 'a, it really cuts in all the harbor. And so already if you just straight lined it, you're positioning yourself further out. Plus you have the reef that you want to be outside of, but then the

the predominant wind is actually like a little side off and that easterly it's weird because we have a lot of days that we can wave sail at Utipa where it's windy enough to wave sail at Utipa because if you think about coming down the coast, it's sticking further out and the east winds that are offshore will hit there. But if you come down the coast and Kanaaha goes in, the winds won't fill back in or they won't come over at that point. And so it'll be glassy. And like my dad like can't sail at Kanaaha.

Luc Moore (01:14:58.893)
of anything and we're still slogging around on four or five or four seven up at Ukipe catching waves, right? That different of wind. And so that's what happens when they do the downwinders is that you have to stay so far outside as you're coming down the coast, the line you take ends up going around and wide to stay in that wind. Yesterday, yesterday I was, I would do a look to sail. Uh, and you know, it was like,

really gusty on the inside. You can just see like streaks cause it was really off shore, like oily spots and like gusts here and there. And on the inside, we're even like white trash really, right? There's enough wind that you can claim. It was that inconsistent. But you know, right on the outside, there were still guys like down wind and suck foiling. They were just out, like out with the whales. You know, you could see it. I mean, you like, you know, like look up, look down the coast and you could see like it's just.

Like there's no wind down there. You have to go so far out. So they were ballsy. I'm not like that. I'm winning right now. Yeah. But yeah, they're doing it like they're doing it all the time. It's absolutely phenomenal. Seeing the clips online, you know, those those guys that are like Kane and and Gadu's girlfriend to you and Jeremy and Dave. It's it's absolutely the most horrible, hardest.

this frustrating anger thing you're ever going to do just by the way. Good purging exercise. Yes. And that's the thing with not only you're going to be on some of the best gear you could help for, um, it's still, I mean, I was my, it was my slice of humble pie and last week coming back and I was, um, uh, our good friends like Paige and Michelle. Um, I was like, yeah, this is gonna be great. Be right there.

first day cage had to wait for like an hour down to go. So I was like, Oh my, I forget how hard that is. And I remember going to that Swifty ones that I mean, if they guys bell Robbie Swift and he's a walking like tank, athleticism, you know, storm chase, crushes it on everything. And I remember being with him and I was like going by him down with me. Like, you just like getting there. So I'm like, Oh, yeah. Like he has Apple watches. Yeah. Just.

Luc Moore (01:17:16.653)
I was just waiting for the hiring to go, whoa, 170, I'll try again. I was like, oh sweet, it's not just me. It's like, it's the standard. And everybody, everybody said the exact same, like, uh, I remember like that. I was like, Matt, I was the ambassador, you know, and he started doing it too. And I was like, oh, it's a great workout. And so he had it figured out. I know who doesn't say it. Instagram. Instagram doesn't say it. It's just like, it's either bikini models or Jack dudes.

having a blast going downwind and you can't even tell it's hard. It's like the very best metaphor to Instagram in general. You only see that hard, you don't see it. But it is true, downwind is one of the greatest sports because if you're not having a decent time, you're guaranteed getting one of the best workouts ever. And then it got bombarded by Wyatt and Brennan who are also down.

La Paz right now in Pueblo Talents. So just trying to tell them we're trying to have a wonderful podcast here. Nice man. Is there anything else you wanted to touch on or talk about? Yeah, I mean, we didn't talk about, you know, I've got a lot of, you know, that hip replacement or going through a leukemia or something like that as well. It's completely up to you. I didn't want to just like, I didn't want to bring it up. Like, I don't need to go down the road. But also if you wanted to like piece it in or not, I don't want to like not.

talk about it if it's, and I say it too because my hope would be, and I think since we started doing it, everyone has a personal part in this or their ego and getting the feedback and the support helps a lot. But it was also to share with people, like you can actually go through these experiences, right? I think you said it yourself through your injury. I think a lot of times when we get knocked down,

you know, the first feeling is a sense of hopelessness, right? And it's, and can't get back to doing the thing we want to do and how do we do it? Right. And, um, and you think about the end picture at so far away when you're, when you're first injured, right. And whatever it is like that road recovery. And I think, um, again, like what we were talking about just before we started was, uh, was how these sports really, um, give us a road map.

Luc Moore (01:19:41.357)
to understanding like we can achieve things that we didn't think we could achieve, but it's going to happen. Mike, there's no shortcutting to putting in the time and the experience and being determined to get there. Right. No one's going to give to you no matter where you come from in life or what you have. When you get on a water, I said, whatever that opportunity was, you get there. But once you're on the water, only you can like, figure out how to.

you know, up all our water start or get on the foil for the first time. Right. And it's, it's hard. It's frustrating. It's scary. It's all the different, I mean, not just the sport element you put yourself into the time you start to reallot everything else. Like there's a lot of factors that go into being able to achieve those things. And I think by doing that, it helps set you up for when you have these other injuries, like your.

you have training in a way of focusing and aligning that stuff so you can be determined and get through it. And so yeah, for me, that was like my hips at first. I didn't know. I mean, we had been, I never surfed very well, like popping up, but I also wasn't doing a lot of other sports. I like stretching a lot in high school, like I had no idea. And then went through college, I would just sail near and there. And then when I graduated, I went up to the gorge and all the guys like Tyson, Whit, Rob,

Wyatt, Nick, Brian, and like, I became best friends with, but they were just on the top level of freestyle and everything, right? So good. And I was just trying to learn and man, I was just scared and crashing and had to be like hobbling around a little bit. But he just figured it's part of the learning process, coming on one foot, scrapping the splits. And then it wasn't until, well, five, six years later, one of our really good Windsor friends, Jeff Albright,

He's an orthopedic surgeon too. It was like, we were down in Baja in San Carlos and one morning, Casey, you might want to get your hip checked out. You know, like you might have like an impingement on it or something. Sure enough, it was like a bone spur. And so I couldn't, you know, you're like, I'm sure a lot of people have this. It's much more common. Yeah. My brother has that on his right, right hip. Yeah. There's it's just, it's out a little bit more. So certain squats and stuff, you can go in for surgery, but yeah. Yeah. And I've had three now, um, surgeries for.

Luc Moore (01:22:02.605)
So that's 100 % right. Most of the time I can go in and sand it down. And what happens is like, cause you know a perfect ball in the socket, the bone spur like rips the labrum first, which is like, it's like the O -ring of a vent plug, right? Your gasket there. And so once it rips it, it like breaks the seal and it's hard to like suck and keep it in. And then it starts to tear cartilage and everything else. And so by the time I realized what it was and we did the first surgery,

A couple of years later, like the bones broke in back. And so they did a second one where they actually like took part of the IT band and recreated the, uh, the labrum that was missing. Uh, and then they took like cartilage, uh, I'm sorry. They took an IT band, a dabber, uh, in surgery and discovered like part of the capsule, like put that on to try to recreate it, you know, and, um, that didn't work. So a couple of years after that, um, and this was 2022, did a full hip replacement.

And that was just, I mean, right away, like amazing hip replacements. If anyone has problems and they're going through this stuff, definitely if you have the endotoxin, first off, roll, like do rehab. Like the differences are insane. Most of the stuff can be done with very little maintenance, like really little maintenance, but just basic activation and mobilization, like getting a roller.

and getting a ball, doing like loop bridges, little things like that. My wife, Sarah, she runs NC six training. That was her. That's her sale number from Nick Valadaia. She trains Brazilian, you know, Swiftie, Keith, like a lot of the guys here on Mali. She's had online programs for years and she's got a lot of these training routines and a lot of that will take care of a lot of shoulder, a lot of knee, a lot of basic hip stuff. And no one should go into the surgery or pro training. I was about at least try to do.

you know, I'm serious, like 15 minutes or rolling like three times a week, do that and then do it like four. And then, you know, you start to go down this road and get x -rays and stuff. But if the first impingement surgery doesn't work in there, the replacements now are just insane. And they do them in a way like mine was done where when they take your if anyone doesn't know you like cut off the femur, the top of the ball.

Luc Moore (01:24:23.821)
And then they drill a rod into your femur. And then normally it would just have like the ice pick with the ball. And then on your pelvic side, they played it. And you're basically just grinding it down until it's done. And then they have to like cut you again and reinsert for the double replacement, right? And then eventually it just gets brittle as you're like older and aged out. And there's nothing they can really do. Now what they're doing.

is they actually, when I put the rod in, they screw on a titanium ball. And on the pelvis, on the pad, they have a titanium pad, and then they have a silicone brake pad in there. Oh, like a brake pad in there. Oh. And so now the ball goes against the brake pad, and it wears down the pad. And so after you go on it like five, 10 years in the x -ray, they see how the pad is wearing.

And what they do is they can open you up along your scar and they can just swap out the pad. And so you're not having to redo the replacement anymore. So I meet a lot of people that are like, Oh, my hips been hurting and it just age and you know, all these sports and I don't want to do the replacement. I want to stop like the replacements. Amazing. Like three months you're back. I mean, my hip can do my other tip was, you know, and that's actually what led me to get anybody cancer diagnosis was like, Oh man, this one.

just want to replace it too, you know, uh, cause that get, but like, Oh, you going good to know. Yeah. Absolutely. And so that was, but I think for me, um, you know, it was like, we want to get back to life and then when I get injured, but when you really have something to go for, right. And these sports, like we were talking about, um, you know, you start to really time it out and you have that drive to.

to do the rehab, to change the lifestyle around getting back to it, right? You know, and that stuff. And it was because of the, whether we liked it or not, or admitted to that we were doing it. We were disciplining ourselves to be determined to get through steps as we went through these sports because they're so, the reward was so fun, you know, is there, right? So we didn't think about the work as much, you know? But there was a ton of work involved that way. And then we got to goal and.

Luc Moore (01:26:36.045)
We made the water start, we did the jive, we rode our first wave, we got that. And that's what feeds you back in it. And it's what helped me a lot, I think internally, getting through the surgeries. And then you combine that with the other part that you were saying, and why I think foiling is just so incredible, which is that support of that community and the people around you. And no one can really do that alone.

You know, you got to have the will inside, but it's a it's a group thing, right? And you have those people. And, you know, I know, like, like I said earlier, when we started foiling and time at Page, like you're both gone through it and you know, you're in there for a few weeks and only say hi to that person you're doing your pre -gai and feel like you feel like told dog shit because you're injured. You know, like that way. But misery loves company or, you know, you get yourself out of it. Right. And and you find like good relationships and people when you're.

when you're not at your best, when you're not that and you're accountable for that stuff, you know? And again, you share this common thing together and it's a nice way of black and whiting like a path to it and stuff. So, and I've met, you know, like as much as it sucked, like the best relationships and most things I'm thankful for have come out of having these injuries. Right, T .T.'s one of our closest friends, like Sam at the gym, like all of those people there and...

It's translated over into, uh, you know, making Mally like a home for us really. Cause some of us, it was a Hallie from LA, a windsurfer. And everyone feels that the same thing there. And, um, then yeah. And Sarah too, like when we first started dating, she just idolized that page, right? Big jaws, big waves, female surfer. Like that was her goal. She never sailed jaws yet. And, uh,

Sam Campbell, our husband's a windsurfer and they all figured out Campbell and Sam one searched to you like so Brian introduced me because he was doing R &D with Peter Beale and Neil Pratt time they test their own stuff and so I know Sam, you know, it's how we started this era. I was like, I can introduce you to me. You know, I can't believe how lucky you are. That's how she'll go with me. But but yeah, I know it was just like.

Luc Moore (01:28:58.829)
for that whole time and through those real low points and you end up being there for people. And like, it's come through in all of this. And I mentioned Dylan, I said Dylan and Julia, it's Dylan Fish and Julian, so Julia is a multiple Olympic medalist skier. Dylan, like was at the last cover of Surf from a Magazine in Sane Barrel and Cloudbreak is manager of Tower.

We're lucky that they're down the street from us and through the gym. They're all friends and stuff. So again, like that welcoming into a community out of these down moments and coming back together and having those connections. And then foiling really being that from all different aspects of sports, like a way that we could all come together and enjoy it together and spend that time. And that's what's always been so appealing to me. And everywhere we go now, like.

people are loving to do it and they're excited. They want to go to the water. So I think that injury like that go hand in hand and definitely these sports give us that reason. And they also give us that guideline and structure to get out of, you know, whatever they're in. Well, it saved my life. Like I had lost my community that I had and then you lose your company, you lose friends, girlfriends, and then you're rehabbing and.

I was fortunate enough to have like a right hemisphere brain experience. So like my talking side of my brain slowed down. And then I had a heightened sense of sensitivities towards light, sound, anger, aggression. But what it did do is it put me in touch with feeling a lot more and feeling how, and I have a lot more intuitive things that came to me when I did that. So at that point, I like, I didn't, I never realized looking back on it.

Like I would put 50 to 60 hours of rehab in a week plus going to therapy treatments plus dealing with all the negative talk from doctors, from physiatrists, from telling me to give up and just move on with chronic pain. And then when you find windsurfing and then it's like, okay, now I got to start all over again. But it's almost like this weird thing. Like I don't even comprehend. I was so terrified of water and I was so terrified of everything. I don't even understand how...

Luc Moore (01:31:18.733)
this sport could have dragged me through that to purge all that stuff. Like I don't, like if you would say to somebody, like I just told my buddy the other day when I was sailing at Sandbanks, like I was so terrified, I'd take two shits before I go out in the water and I'd sail half an hour and go home in terror. And he's like, you never shared that. But I was like, yeah, but I don't understand. It must have been what was on the other side. And just relating to what you were saying.

It's like, okay, so you have to get through this on the other side. And then what you're going to experience is going to be so mind blowing that it's going to make your entire existence worthwhile. And I think that's what anybody who hasn't tried a water sport. I think that's what it is. It makes life so much deeper and there's something about it that I don't know if it ties us back to some weird connection we had from like ancient eons ago where we were like all traveling or something, but.

There's something about it that is so special that I'm very, very thankful I found it and connecting with everybody who has had that same passion is pretty special. Yeah. Uh, I mean, we're on the exact same way of like there for that. And I think, um, you know, that really taps into it. I remember watching it was like the, the old, uh, you're seeing old like chilly production videos, like all the old, uh, PWA world tour recaps or like freestyle vents, or, uh, there was one for the Nemo two contest that they did. Um,

Josh Stone won it. But like Ramsey here was like one of the main storylines and narratives to it too. And I remember him saying like, when you fly over the island, like you can be religious or not, you can't help but look down and see how beautiful that is and the way the energy wraps around to not feel some sort of connection to nature, you know? Like don't care if you're full atheist, you cannot help but like look down and just be like, there's some energy there.

And I've always kind of agreed with that. My parents never raised me to be very spiritual, religious, anything like that. So it wasn't like, it wasn't yes or no. It just wasn't really talked about. Right. So but you felt that windsurfing. Right. And you look out and people think you're wild for going out in some of these conditions. You know, I'm really comfortable. And looking back on it, you remember to being horrified and I still happen. We're still, you know, like I've been in jobs once. And I want to tell you, that place is just.

Luc Moore (01:33:43.693)
I don't care how many times you, you look at it from magazines or the pictures, even from the scheme now, right. As you can get like a lot closer, like nothing to me. This is horrifying. He's being out there. I mean, and all I thought about was all these people that are not paddling it, but just sit in the line. I mean, the towering miss of all black, all around you. Granted, I was out there. I'm like a small medium in metal. Okay. You know, I,

just like you said, like, stick your pants twice before you go anyway, it's like just get over, you know, like, but like, I think what's so amazing about this and I tell you, the only other time I ever felt that was with this leukemia diagnosis, right? And the feeling like you're gonna die is that there is that amazing sensation of fully being in the present time and fully being aware of.

all your sensations and everything just gets real focused and you're not worrying about what's about to come and you're not thinking about how it could have been in the past, right? You are just right there and all of a sudden the energy is like right there with you, you know, and there's a really amazing feeling from that and it's hard to replicate, right? And I think...

That's what everyone's always looking for, but in sports you can find this and you can find that it's some connection to the energy, it's some releasing of that chemical and that hormone and that integration with it. And when I got diagnosed with leukemia, you know, they said, I was in the ER and they kept saying how kids do phenomenally well, right? With getting cured and you know, they're like, look, it's going to be okay.

And you know, this is the one I had was the most prevalent in any kids. Kids do great. And it's because, first of all, parents don't ever let them miss an appointment. And it kind of goes back to that initial, like your step by step to get through something right. Like how we learn how to be a plane of time getting through the rehab. And then I like, so I never missed that point. And then second, they don't really aren't old enough yet to like fear death.

Luc Moore (01:36:04.749)
Right. And you see it with kids learning sports, right? You're like, Oh my God, he almost killed himself. Dr. Right. You know, did you see him almost snap his neck? Like there's no way I'm going to do that. But that 10 year old is like, well, I am getting through all of it real quick. Right. You know, that's true. So you're real quick. And the third thing they said was the imagination, right. That they can build a story to your head. You know, and they can.

Imagine being like a superhero on getting through it. And what do you feel like when you're when you're winning? You feel like a fly. You feel like whatever Superman was or watching a bird or something, you know, like or windsurfing that way, like getting that connection to, you know, those dream we all have where that that nature side. Right. And again, like that spirituality and energy. Yes. And and I feel like that became it's so much more common now. And like I said, I was very inflexible and I did yoga.

I never thought I had time like trying to do everything else that we do. And whatever you're just saying about the metaphor of bikinis and dooshes flying, but also dear life and everything else. Our lives here, what you see on Instagram, and I'm sure we talk about a lot, it's a percent of what goes on. And even here, I have a full -time sales job and Sarah is developing her own

She trains three times a week. She writes a code for everything. She's a wellness ambassador for this stuff. She's constantly doing a video editing, like all, you know, things that is great things to do, but you're nonstop working. No, Allison, everything else. And so, you know, all can quickly get mixed up with that, that rush for that sport again, and that, that realigning of that energy and focusing on that and coming from other place. And you feel it as you do the sports, but you know, that's what, um,

shifted for me like as I got the cameo was thinking about the kids like that and that imagination. You don't think about all the other stuff you have to do or whatever. Just very focused on the beauty side. And that's what we get. We want to be the sports, you know, we want to be sports and you're so focused or like I said out at JAWS, you're just your first time like cheating in and holding on like the whole world disappears and you're just in there. And I think that's.

Luc Moore (01:38:23.949)
what you were talking about that like, that's what gets you to do that things, you know? And you want that feeling again, no matter what, right? And it just, and again, I think foiling does that really well. And there's a guy, a good Windsor friend, she gave me a book, You Are the Placebo, that's by Dr. Joe Espinosa. And again, what he did was super interesting. He had a similar, like you got a car, a biking car, get him broke every like.

bone in his body, total no chance of anything. And again, these are out there, right? If you walk here, breathing. And he was in San Diego, like against all Dr. Dore, he goes back to his friend's house, he spends months and he's like in his bed, redrawing his spine, like rebuilding itself. And he is, you know, fully healed, everything else I spent, he was already, I forget, along the way, his education, we got really into like tracing all those like.

You wouldn't believe this miraculous healing, you know, of like physical, whatever it is. And these people that, you know, and placebo studies and then looking at the brain scans now, sorry, we're trying to get to you. And there's so much of that neuropsychology tapping into, you know, that energy. And it's very hard to do. It takes a lot of time and practice. You know, I'm very, I've been trying to do it as a way to get myself, um,

to think and feel differently about stuff. That's what you learn as you go through injury or cancer. You can't control your next session if you're just going to hit the lip the wrong way or jive funny and twist your foot, right? Like these things are inevitable. They have risk. But what you can do is control how you think and feel about, you know, getting out of it. And then once you do that again, to just get back to that present feeling, you know, I think that's that's what we get in the sport. And that's the kind of nice.

So, I don't know. There's... Yeah. No, those are huge. The tools, like they're tools in order to help you become more and more present. And I found that... I think people only truly understand what's required to get through something like you went through, something like a lot of... Like everybody goes through their own little thing, regardless of what it is. But some people go through things that are a lot harder.

Luc Moore (01:40:46.253)
And it's at that point where they recognize that there is no longer a no. You'll explore anything possible and it's the opening up of yourself to accept that. And you shed all of the, like for me, it's full committing. You commit 100 % and then you let go of everything else and nothing else even matters.

So that for me was such a freeing experience and going back to it, I'm thankful because I found that it set me free from so many things. Did you find that experience of going through this to shed, like you're, by becoming more present, you have no choice but to shed everything else around you in a way. Yeah, I think it just, yeah, and it, um.

It's not to say that you should go through some of this stuff, get to it and find another way, which is what that - I wish you could. With a bullet for that, right? And again, trials and tribulations with gear development or these things to get you to - I wish it was easier. Find the element forever. But no, definitely there is that freedom with it. And I think, and to be able to find that shift in perspective again on the things that are, like how -

much anxiety or time or stress do I need to like allocate to this thing really or can I deal with it, you know, bigger picture stuff or even if I have to deal with it, like the approach I take to it, right? And the empathy or seeing from the other side and being like, you know, mostly things are, we're all on the same team trying to solve problems. We're not like confrontational about it or something, you know, and before you might just be more in your own and thinking about this and you kind of brought in. So I've tried to change that a lot in our relationships.

And it's made things a lot more, I mean, I tell you, you just really remind yourself all the time to enjoy that present, whatever you're doing. The sport focuses on it, though it quickly loses as we get back. But there's still a lot to be thankful for all the time. And when you have that approach, being thankful, they talk about it with the energy, right? That actually like, that gratitude produces energy that you don't need to like take from something or someone else. But you actually have so much of it that you can give it.

Luc Moore (01:43:04.301)
out and you know the difference when someone like little things like hold the door open for you or you see someone like be like, oh, I don't have the change and someone else like I got you right. And just there's like a nice feeling there. Right. And you feel more inclined to do that after you've had one of these sessions or these moments and you can feel that gratitude because you're truly thankful to be here in the present. You know, and you remind yourself of that. And that's how then you go back to deal with what you have to deal with today. Right. It's still right there. And you ask yourself, you know, like I.

I don't know. I'm not saying in the... It just, anyway, like, you know, everything becomes like a repetition or Groundhog Day or, hey, we're just trying to figure out how to make this work and save up money to build a house and have a kid and you know what I mean? This stuff. Gosh, it seems like a lot. And is it ever going to end or something? Yeah, it's bad. It's insane. And...

And I'm like, maybe it's as good as it gets like now anyways, like this is the prime of our lives, right? And then, and then I got leukemia and then just like, I know this is way too soon. Like I got a lot of shit I wanted to do. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Luc Moore (01:44:28.685)
it refocuses that and then it's holding onto that perspective and that area of being, you know, thankful for a lot of what we get to do and what we got. And then how that approaches like everything else, you know? And it makes it so when you get on the water, it's more fun. Because I think we've all been there too, where you get on the water and you can't like leave land behind, you know? And that bit, so. Yeah, it's exciting. I'm super thankful that...

That you're here and we're talking and that you've, you've gotten through that. Are you through all the phases of recovery or is there anything more that you have to watch out for or do? Yeah. Um, I think it's like a general, we, they joke about it. Like when you have cancer, like you're just trying to get back to like normal life when you never know what's going to come next, but you know, think it's going to come from this one, right? You get back to that. Uh,

Should have started with two. If I got really red at some point, that's like my chemo and radiation side effects still. It's pretty funny. But no, so right now I'm, excuse me, six and a half months post bone marrow transplant for acute lymphoblastic leukemia and chronic myeloid leukemias. We got diagnosed last January. I had a sore back and a mild fever.

The sore back turned out to be the blood cancer and gone to the my kidneys and inflamed with the lymph nodes there. Also my neck, which is what happens kind of when you get sick. So it's not really a concern at first, but it didn't go away. So I was diagnosed end of last January, flew to UCLA, rented an apartment there, did treatments up until July 14th, best deal day.

the France and did a bone marrow transplant. So they do the treatments to get you as down as you can. For me, I got in your remission before. And then you get bone marrow transplant. And then from there, it's kind of like a rest and relapse. It's the only way to cure the type of leukemia that we have or that I had of still. But it also comes with a host of other things. And like you're saying before, they change your perspective. You want to live. So.

Luc Moore (01:46:48.685)
the graft -first host disease. It's anyone that gets an organ transplants plant, they have to take pills for the rest of their life so that your body doesn't attack the foreign entity. But with blood cancers, you have the, it's a higher risk of having that disease, but it's also the chance that you don't have it at all and you don't need to take pills all your life because the donor will, what they call graft, and basically become your whole new system. And so,

everything in your body, the donor transplant, it goes to every piece of it. And there's a, it's called a T reg part of your T cell that attaches to everything in your body. And that's the identifier that it's you because the T con is the other part of the T cell. And that's what, if you get a cut infection or your virus or whatever, that goes out and attacks that. And the only thing it knows is to attack anything without that marker. And if you don't have that marker,

then it will attack you. And so a lot of times the risk is, you know, you have kidney failures, you have liver failures. Skipper ashes are like, I don't, this is not, this is not really it. This is more a side effect. It's hard to see. I got chemo, radiation, there's a glides in between. But it's the only way out. And I was really lucky. I got on a trial, it's called Orca trial and they do the transplant a little bit differently. So it's a little less harsh.

And it gives time for the engraftment. So I wasn't expected to be back on the water for another six months till July the year after. I was able to get on the water about five months after. I wasn't trying to like race it. I was really like, this is all right. But it's remarkable the difference. But they say too, and going back to it, like what you're asking is I have to wait till one year out of transplant and do another bone marrow biopsy. They see how things are going. And it's still tracking well at that point.

Then they kind of go to like six months and a year for two years and at six months and three years and every six months until you get to five years. And once you get to five years and it hasn't flared back up or you don't have Graffers -Host disease, then they say you're pretty much back to like anything else can kill you. It's not going to be a leukemia. It's not like it wouldn't be to anybody else. And so that's.

Luc Moore (01:49:06.477)
Everyone has different cancer stories and stuff, but the general rule is kind of like once you get about five years out, if you're still on remission, it's pretty good. But they again say, you know, and why I'm here and so I'm super pasty, like I just stay out of the sun, like sit on the bread, that's the high, everything. But they just tell you, you know, my doctor was very like, my numbers were coming up very slow and right now I'm still like very immunocompromised.

Adjust them getting my cell counts like back into normal levels, but like the hemoglobins that carry oxygen on your red blood cells are still like below normal. So let me tell you like paddling around. But she said, you know, the thing was, was that she's like, Casey, we don't, you know, all the science we have now, we don't still understand in what order.

the immune system reconstitutes itself or not. So I believe like feeding your soul is the best way for it. For you, you know, you go home, you get back and it kind of goes back to that, you know, what we strive for too. So very grateful for that and that side. But yeah, a little bit longer. But like I said, we all got things that were in and at this point just very thankful for its continued reminder of...

what we think about with our time and how we focus on it. And like I said, just getting to be with friends and family on the water and what we do that way has been amazing. Getting to ride the gear, the job I do too, the political finance. We get to work with committees and amazing people across the country. We're just saving them time. It's funny, and I'm sure you do this with sales too, we say, our thing is that it's monthly contracts and they can leave whenever they want.

And they have far more experience than I've ever had. And their site keeps saying thanks and, you know, like everybody's succeeding better there. And they're more positive because they're they're determined to get to that path that, you know, and so they're more productive and everything's a lot is a lot more enjoyable in that present time, you know. And I think I think when we get injured like that, you know, you just want to you just want to enjoy it. Right. And with your friends and stuff. So that's that's why I'm very.

Luc Moore (01:51:20.973)
It's kind of weird what I care grateful for, for getting a leukemia. So it's kind of wild, but I don't think like I would have been able to put that together unless you go through it like that, you know? Uh, and, uh, but, um, but it's the same for a lot of people, uh, how they take injuries, you know, all the time. So, yeah, I hear you. Well, Hey Casey, man, thanks for, thanks for taking two hours and thanks for sharing all of that with us. Um, there's a lot.

You can go get it out after Rambling, we can get it in about 20 minutes. The episode is going to be 19 minutes and 45 seconds with all our rambling cut out, but it's, it's no, I think we're just going to keep it. I know, but I honestly do like, um, it takes courage to come out and talk about things that, that have impacted. And, um, I know the team over there and everybody was just.

super, super supportive for you. And I'm just happy that you're on this part of this journey and I can only see it getting better. So thank you very much. Yeah. You know, the boys have been great. Everybody itself. And you get to work with some of the best guys in the world, right? Like working with Keith and those boys like that, like I had a hard time stringing a sentence together when I met them for the first time. Well, like, and I think what we're all grateful for our, you know, and, um,

And we didn't mention it too much here and we're wrapping up with the Dragonflies and that was like my first real hands on. The Gintus were already involved by the time I really jumped on. So when they showed them to me, they had some of the first prototypes. But the Dragonflies like just Keith and Elliot Lebelle and I like from scratch. And like I said, being with that group of people and the riders and the whole community, I'm very grateful for and I'm still kind of like you. I mean, I still walk in.

Oh, fuck, I can't believe it's actually reality, right? But I think we all turn around back to everybody else and all the writers around the world and the people really expressing how much fun they're having every day sessions. For me, going through the treatment.

Luc Moore (01:53:33.709)
Leukemia last year, like watching people like on Instagram, like posting all their sessions with the dragonflies. And I said to them, like, oh, like, do you really like it? Where is that? My man is amazing. And like all, you know, like one after the other and so fired up and I know so rad. And whenever I talk to like Keith or I don't know, guys at a shop or a lot of friends, just go to Jason and check in and stuff. They're just like, dude, like these people are so stoked. This is so rad. And so for everybody watching and.

like thank you very much and keep the feedback coming. Like it's the most honorable like recognition of doing something that provides value, right? And I think everybody just wants everybody from the team wants to make sure, like I said, for the time that we do have to enjoy for ourselves that you're having the most fun possible. That's what it's all about when it comes to the R &D, you know?

So, yeah, it's been a blast and I'm still with you. I'm like, I can't believe you're going to do this. Yeah. Yeah. And it's only I don't know if that's ever going to go away. But maybe that's the fun part about it. Right. Long as they still let us build like the craziest spaceships or try random shit like it's going. All right, brother. Thanks, man. And yeah, we'll have to chat soon.

And hey everybody, thanks for joining on this chat today and we'll see you guys next time. Right on man, have a good one, thank you.